From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #25 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, July 12 2002 Volume 08 : Number 025 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: lost links [scribes]: backgrounds Re: [scribes]: backgrounds Re: [scribes]: lost links Re: [scribes]: lost links Re: [scribes]: backgrounds [scribes]: Making a burnisher Re: [scribes]: lost links [scribes]: re: background Re: [scribes]: backgrounds Re: [scribes]: backgrounds [scribes]: Black hours Re: [scribes]: Black hours ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sunshine Subject: [scribes]: lost links - --0-495067156-1026352150=:41836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good evening gentles! I have recently had a computer crash, I lost all my bookmarks for scribal arts, calligraphy and illumination, over a hundred links on the arts alone. So, what I'd like to ask of all of you, is if everyone could send me a few favorite links, send me anything you think a good illuminator would have in their bookmarks/favorites list. From the off beat to the one that you think I would already automaticaly have. Just share any thing with me, help me build back up my goodies list! I'll compile them all and put them on my web page when its done as well so everyone can have a look see at it too. Constance -who really should have backed up her files- Glendower ~~ Damnant quod non intellegunt ~~ - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access - --0-495067156-1026352150=:41836 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Good evening gentles!

I have recently had a computer crash, I lost all my bookmarks for scribal arts, calligraphy and illumination, over a hundred links on the arts alone.

So, what I'd like to ask of all of you, is if everyone could send me a few favorite links, send me anything you think a good illuminator would have in their bookmarks/favorites list. From the off beat to the one that you think I would already automaticaly have. 

Just share any thing with me, help me build back up my goodies list! I'll compile them all and put them on my web page when its done as well so everyone can have a look see at it too.

Constance -who really should have backed up her files- Glendower



~~ Damnant quod non intellegunt ~~


Do You Yahoo!?
New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access - --0-495067156-1026352150=:41836-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:23:08 -0500 From: "chiara" Subject: [scribes]: backgrounds I am in the middle of working on two scrolls, ending one about to start another, and I have a question. How do I put in a very light background, watermarkish like, image on the paper so that I can still callig on it once it is dry? Do I use two different mediums? I.E. color pencil the background image and then use an ink that will soak through it? What do I do? Is there a historical instance of any process that anyone knows of that worked? I am tempted to just take it to kinkos and have them photocopy the image onto the paper then callig on top of it but then it just would not be a true work from my hand, just a transfer of it to the paper. Am I being to anal about this? Help! Suggestions! I am on a bit of a tight schedule. :) The reason this came up is because I am out of room on the scroll for an important piece of art. I can think of many things to do but this one is a nice idea and I would like to be able to do it. If not well, I can sneak it in amongst the text. :) Chiara =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:37:41 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: backgrounds Dear Chiara, Regarding "watermarks": "Am I being to anal about this?" Yes. :) "The reason this came up is because I am out of room on the scroll for an important piece of art." So what? Is lots of illumination always necessary? Why cannot your fine calligraphy stand alone? - -- johannes v.n. (OL) "Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't" -- Mark Twain =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:36:10 +0200 From: merlyn@virulent.de Subject: Re: [scribes]: lost links I had to share this drooooool http://www.gutenbergdigital.de/gudi/eframes/texte/inhalt.htm Bridget. - --- "What is this an invasion? How many people are in this household anyway? "Count the beer, divide by three and you have an aproximate number." "Er... we're in a liquor store." =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:50:01 -0400 From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: lost links One of the ones I showed the people at the local scriptorium here is called Whitewater Consciousness. There is a MASSIVE amount of links on her pages, including period resources and links to pages of scribes' works. I highly recommend the site. :) - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (East) E.Frank, Long Island NY In a message dated Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:36:10 +0200, merlyn@virulent.de writes: > > > I had to share this > > drooooool > > http://www.gutenbergdigital.de/gudi/eframes/texte/inhalt.htm > > > Bridget. > > --- > "What is this an invasion? How many people are in this household anyway? > "Count the beer, divide by three and you have an aproximate number." > "Er... we're in a liquor store." > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional > text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:01:54 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: backgrounds At 10:23 PM 7/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I am in the middle of working on two scrolls, ending one about to start >another, and I have a question. How do I put in a very light background, >watermarkish like, image on the paper so that I can still callig on it once >it is dry? Do I use two different mediums? I.E. color pencil the background >image and then use an ink that will soak through it? What do I do? Is there >a historical instance of any process that anyone knows of that worked? Personally, I have used a very light grey or brown for this - *very* light. So long as you aren't glopping the paint on and it's a light enough color, it shouldn't be a problem. The ink should sit on top of it very well. You do have to be decisive with your writing though, as mistakes on this sort of thing are more difficult to lift than mistakes straight on the paper, as you now have to repair the 'watermark' as well. Watermarks *are* period. It's just that they happen when one is making the paper, not as a painted piece on the document. Are you being anal? Probably. Does it matter? Not really. If you want/need this other piece of illumination on the document, this is a very nice (and subtle) way to incorporate it and heighten the look of the piece. For instance, I've done the kingdom seal as a large watermark in the background of the text, using very washed out colors. This way, the piece didn't have to be stamped with the horrible rubber stamp that so many of our Royals use; and, it didn't need the wax seal that so many people are afraid of when they have it on their scroll (usually because it will often cost more to frame or they are afraid that the wax seal will fall off). The kingdom seal is a necessary component of SCA scrolls and having it already on the document can make life a little easier for some Signets and Royals. Smiles, Despina =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:11:47 -0400 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: Making a burnisher Hi fellow scribes! I just loaded up my article on making a gilding burnisher out of cheap, common materials. You can find it at: http://randyasplund.com/browse/medieval/burnisher.html There are also other articles there on several different things from making braise & Chausses to a new one on making helm crests. The helm crest article has lots of pictures of crests on it from manuscript illuminations, so if you are doing a scroll with an achievement on it, this is still a good thing to take a look at. RanthulfR - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:22:43 -0400 From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: lost links As requested, Whitewater Consciousness (Tasha's page): http://tasha.gallowglass.org/calligraphy.html Enjoy. :) - --Kayleigh (hopefully one of these days I'll have an *organized* webpage...) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Allen Freeman Subject: [scribes]: re: background sounds like something I'm working on at present myself. why dont you do this: use a heavily diluted wash of violet watercolor (goache would work, but you really don't want that level of opacity in this situation), paint in the form of whatever it is you want in the background, then go over with a slightly higher pigment density to tighten up your lines and shadows and whatnot. and to mr. cash, way to be part of the solution buddy :P - -phaedrus. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:53:22 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: Re: [scribes]: backgrounds More or less this is a period idea, its called dying...(Most of the dyes I've seen have been very dark, but we found a few that were done as thinner layers of red AND had dark colors painted on them (so they weren't just light because they had faded, but not nearly as light as a water mark, either) We have achieved similar looking effects by using very light washes on the heaviest papers or by applying a thin layer of one of the transparent colors. Can't recall which ones off hand by I think madder rose and viridian or some other bright, slightly bluish green tends to fall into that category. I've painted over these, but not tried to calligraph over them, and I suspect th success will vary stronly with the kind of pen and ink you use. At a minimum, let the paint dry VERY THOROUGHLY before even attempting calligraphy. Pencil does not take ink well, if it takes it at all, but if you use one of the laquered, water-broof inks (which don't scratch off as easily as some of the non-water proof inks occasionally can), you may be able to do the calligraphy first, then brush over it lightly with a pencil or pastel or other soft medium to add a little color to your page or sketch in a badge or whatever you need to include as a 'background'.. Come to think of it, if you use a waterproof ink, you should be able to use paint around the calligraphy (though that is going to be a slow way to do it). They tend to sit on top of the paper a bit, so with a little care, you should be able to brush right up to the ink without covering it. If you do cover part of a letter - clean it off while the paint is wet. Depending on the 'important' art work - might you be able to fit it into a moderate sized capitol? (not necessarily at the top corner of the page, either) ;-> Then there is my favorite 'size-problem' solution: do your calligraphy smaller. Most people make rather larger letters than is appropriate for the nib size, and leave too much space between letters for the hand. I think its a fun challenge to work your way down toward microscopic; and have you seen some of the smaller period books? They fit a lot of text on a 2-3" page! and illumination besides! Small tips and a magnifying glass do wonders for getting it smaller without a lot of stress and strain. Let us know what you decide to do! Enid Calontir chiara wrote: > > I am in the middle of working on two scrolls, ending one about to start > another, and I have a question. How do I put in a very light background, > watermarkish like, image on the paper so that I can still callig on it once > it is dry? Do I use two different mediums? I.E. color pencil the background > image and then use an ink that will soak through it? What do I do? Is there > a historical instance of any process that anyone knows of that worked? > > I am tempted to just take it to kinkos and have them photocopy the image > onto the paper then callig on top of it but then it just would not be a true > work from my hand, just a transfer of it to the paper. Am I being to anal > about this? Help! Suggestions! I am on a bit of a tight schedule. :) > > The reason this came up is because I am out of room on the scroll for an > important piece of art. I can think of many things to do but this one is a > nice idea and I would like to be able to do it. If not well, I can sneak it > in amongst the text. :) > > Chiara > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:19:33 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: backgrounds - --part1_193.9a9afb7.2a5f6c85_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/10/2002 11:27:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes: > > I am in the middle of working on two scrolls, ending one about to start > another, and I have a question. How do I put in a very light background, > watermarkish like, image on the paper so that I can still callig on it once > it is dry? Do I use two different mediums? I.E. color pencil the background > image and then use an ink that will soak through it? What do I do? Is there > a historical instance of any process that anyone knows of that worked? > > Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is to do it in silverpoint. Silverpoint will not bleed or run and you can paint over it or ink over it. It will not show through the ink. To do this, get some zinc powder (wear a dust mask and rubber gloves when you do this) and sprinkle it on your paper and then dump the excess off. Then you get some sterling silver wire and put a chunk of it in a stylus (like an exacto knife holder or something. Get the wire the right size diameter to fit in the holder.) File the point of the wire into whatever writing tip you want for your image. Then draw the image on the lightly zinc powdered paper surface. The zinc causes the silver to tarnish and it leaves a gray line on the paper. You can then take a makeup brush and brush over the paper to get any loose zinc off from it (again, wear the mask - you don't really want to breath a lot of this stuff). It should not hurt any of your design if you paint over the zinc, unless the paint has silver in it. As to where to get the zinc powder, I am not sure. I got mine from Baroness Annejke at an SCA event. Maybe someone out there knows where you can get some quick. Brandy - --part1_193.9a9afb7.2a5f6c85_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/10/2002 11:27:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chiara@io.com writes:



I am in the middle of working on two scrolls, ending one about to start
another, and I have a question. How do I put in a very light background,
watermarkish like, image on the paper so that I can still callig on it once
it is dry? Do I use two different mediums? I.E. color pencil the background
image and then use an ink that will soak through it? What do I do? Is there
a historical instance of any process that anyone knows of that worked?



Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is to do it in silverpoint. Silverpoint will not bleed or run and you can paint over it or ink over it. It will not show through the ink.

To do this, get some zinc powder (wear a dust mask and rubber gloves when you do this) and sprinkle it on your paper and then dump the excess off. Then you get some sterling silver wire and put a chunk of it in a stylus (like an exacto knife holder or something. Get the wire the right size diameter to fit in the holder.) File the point of the wire into whatever writing tip you want for your image. Then draw the image on the lightly zinc powdered paper surface. The zinc causes the silver to tarnish and it leaves a gray line on the paper. You can then take a makeup brush and brush over the paper to get any loose zinc off from it (again, wear the mask - you don't really want to breath a lot of this stuff). It should not hurt any of your design if you paint over the zinc, unless the paint has silver in it.

As to where to get the zinc powder, I am not sure. I got mine from Baroness Annejke at an SCA event. Maybe someone out there knows where you can get some quick.

Brandy - --part1_193.9a9afb7.2a5f6c85_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:01:12 +1000 From: "Annette Wilson" Subject: [scribes]: Black hours Greetings all A while ago someone was looking for a Black Hours - browsing the web I found this site, with practically a whole book scanned page by page. http://www.dndgalleries.com/bofh2.html Enjoy Leonie de Grey (Annette Wilson) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:19:59 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Black hours Good Lady Leonie, Thank You! Browsing through those pictures was a remarkable journey! To everyone who has the -slightest- interest in Black Hours: Go Look At The Pictures NOW! They relate to an item which is up for private sale; and as such they probably won't be online for more than a few days. Peter Annette Wilson wrote: > > Greetings all > A while ago someone was looking for a Black Hours - browsing the web I > found this site, with practically a whole book scanned page by page. > > http://www.dndgalleries.com/bofh2.html > > Enjoy > > Leonie de Grey > > (Annette Wilson) > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #25 ****************************