From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest)
To: scribes-digest@castle.org
Subject: scribes digest V8 #2
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scribes digest          Friday, June 21 2002          Volume 08 : Number 002



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 Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks
 Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You
 [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??
 Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....
 RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??
 [scribes]: Re: famous medival scribes/illuminators??
 Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....
 [scribes]: Ink from irises?
 Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks
 Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks
 Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....
 Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks
 [scribes]: Final price
 [scribes]: Re: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You
 Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?
 Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??
 [scribes]: Famous Scribes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:14:55 -0500
From: "Helen Schultz" <meisterin@comteck.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks

Jean-Paul:

Now that I know a bit more about your nib usage, I think I can help a bit more.
If you use Mitchell's without the reservoir, and try to do it on a flat
horizontal surface, then gravity is going to zap you every time.  You need to
have at least a 30 degree angle of slant... I've even used a 45 degree with
better success... but my drafting table is set at 30 degrees and I really don't
want to change that.  <sheepish grin>

Yes, there is a bit of grinding in the process. <sigh>  If, however, you have a
bit excess ink made too thin, and are not in a big hurry, you can let it sit for
about half an hour or so to evaporate off some of the water.  Just never let
your grinding stone sit overnight with dried ink on it, you may deeply regret it
later <wry grin>.

KHvS

- ----- Original Message -----

> > On Jun 20, Helen Schultz illuminated :
>
> > This same instructor's grinding technique was this... start with about 10
drops
> > of distilled water and grind, grind, grind... after a while, drag the stick
> > across the ground puddle and if it parts like the "Red Sea," and you don't
need
> >
> ahhhh more grinding I see.  :(  patience and sore fingers here I come.
>
>
> > you working on a slant when you callig with this ink??  Are you using nibs
with
> > reservoirs??  I use Mitchell's without a reservoir and rarely get more than
a
> > few letters (unless I am using a really small nib) with each "fill" of the
nib.
> >
> No slant and I'm using Mitchells with no resevoir too :)  It is good to see
> that you are getting the same sort of results as I am.
>
> Thank you. :)
>
> ./jp
> --
> Jean-Paul Blaquiere             ||   Avatar of Computational
>    japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au   ||   Thaumaturgy
>    http://japester.ucc.asn.au   ||   verum ipsum factum
>      Questions are dangerous, for they have answers



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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:15:41 -0500
From: "Dawn" <dagian@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You

Umm... they would have been in the proceedings... had they been finished in
time ;-)

Seriously - I'm working off an outline, not a detailed article.  However,
since there is so much interest, I'll try to MAKE it a detailed article
after this weekend.  Give me a month or so, and I'll announce to the list
that it's ready.  I'll be happy to send it to any who wish it.

Madeleine

- ----------
>From: "Holly" <res0vxr9@verizon.net>
>To: <scribes@castle.org>
>Subject: RE: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You
>Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2002, 9:54 PM
>

> The Proceedings volume should have them, yes/no?
>
> :-)---Holly---<--<-@
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On
>> Behalf Of R & M
>>
>>
>> Would it be at all possible to get acopy of the class notes of this and
>> for that matter any other of the class notes.
>> Being on the other side of the planet I'm afraid I can't get there.
>> Thanking you in advance
>> Marit the Wanderer
>>
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:22:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "jystock@excite.com" <jystock@excite.com>
Subject: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??

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 Hi I sent a message a few days ago and I noticed my message never made it to the list.&nbsp; But, for some reason it did and I just missed it, forgive me for being repetitious.&nbsp;I've been painting illuminations for a while and have attended past KWHS.&nbsp; I've heard of famous people such as Duc de Berry, but that is the only one I can seem to remember. I'm not even sure if he's form France or Italy??&nbsp; There' also a Mary of somebody/somwhwere, but I can't remember her name.&nbsp; I seem to write these names&nbsp;on loose pieces of paper at events or think I'll remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.&nbsp; Never so!!  I always forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! &nbsp;l love to study different styles and would like to read up on some of the more prominent scribes and such.&nbsp; Can anyone throw out&nbsp;a few names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names would help too.&nbsp; It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and from different regions and times.&nbsp; Sort of a comprehensive list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators.&nbsp; Unless a list like this already exists??????&nbsp;Thanks so much!&nbsp;Ysabeau

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 <table cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 border=0 width=100% bgcolor=white><tr height=200><td width=100%><font size=2 color=black><DIV>Hi I sent a message a few days ago and I noticed my message never made it to the list.&nbsp; But, for some reason it did and I just missed it, forgive me for being repetitious.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I've been painting illuminations for a while and have attended past KWHS.&nbsp; I've heard of famous people such as Duc de Berry, but that is the only one I can seem to remember. I'm not even sure if he's form France or Italy??&nbsp; There' also a Mary of somebody/somwhwere, but I can't remember her name.&nbsp; I seem to write these names&nbsp;on loose pieces of paper at events or think I'll remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.&nbsp; Never so!!  I always forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>l love to study different styles and would like to read up on some of the more prominent scribes and such.&nbsp; Can anyone throw out&nbsp;a few names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names would help too.&nbsp; It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and from different regions and times.&nbsp; Sort of a comprehensive list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators.&nbsp; Unless a list like this already exists??????</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Thanks so much!</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Ysabeau<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></font></td></tr></table><p><hr><b>Join Excite! - <a href="http://www.excite.com/?PG=Email&SEC=Signature" target=_top>http://www.excite.com</a></b><br>The most personalized portal on the Web!

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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:36:10 -0400
From: "Sally Burnell" <sburnell@raex.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....

> ACK!!!
>
> Kayleigh, your best chance of getting the ink stain out is with a solvent.
> Go buy a can of the cheapest hair spray you can find.
> "AquaNet" is the one that comes to mind.  (Don't laugh!)

Kayleigh,

     I concur with Peter on that. The cheapest, cheesiest hair spray you can
find is best. I used White Rain when I spilled a bottle of permanent India
ink here on the carpet of my apartment, and frantically seeing my security
deposit disappearing, my chemistry major next door neighbour recommended
cheap, cheesy hair spray. Got up every drop of the ink without so much as
leaving a stain.

Try that and see if it doesn't work for you! Best of luck!

~Saradwen, been there, done that
  Midrealm

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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "jystock@excite.com" <jystock@excite.com>
Subject: RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??

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 Oh No!&nbsp; I have to apologized spelling medieval incorrectly in the subject line!!!&nbsp; And to a scribes list no less!&nbsp; I'm sorry!&nbsp; I've only been in the SCA for eight years now!&nbsp;&nbsp; How embarrassing and I get to look at that for all the replies.&nbsp; :(Ysabeau--- On Thu 06/20, jystock@excite.com &lt; jystock@excite.com &gt; wrote:
From: jystock@excite.com [mailto: jystock@excite.com]To: scribes@castle.orgDate: Thu 06/20Subject: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??




Hi I sent a message a few days ago and I noticed my message never made it to the list.&nbsp; But, for some reason it did and I just missed it, forgive me for being repetitious.&nbsp;I've been painting illuminations for a while and have attended past KWHS.&nbsp; I've heard of famous people such as Duc de Berry, but that is the only one I can seem to remember. I'm not even sure if he's form France or Italy??&nbsp; There' also a Mary of somebody/somwhwere, but I can't remember her name.&nbsp; I seem to write these names&nbsp;on loose pieces of paper at events or think I'll remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.&nbsp; Never so!! I always forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! &nbsp;l love to study different styles and would like to read up on some of the more prominent scr!ibes and such.&nbsp; Can anyone throw out&nbsp;a few names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names would help too.&nbsp; It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and from different regions and times.&nbsp; Sort of a comprehensive list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators.&nbsp; Unless a list like this already exists??????&nbsp;Thanks so much!&nbsp;Ysabeau


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 <table cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 border=0 width=100% bgcolor=white><tr height=200><td width=100%><font size=2 color=black><DIV>Oh No!&nbsp; I have to apologized spelling medieval incorrectly in the subject line!!!&nbsp; And to a scribes list no less!&nbsp; I'm sorry!&nbsp; I've only been in the SCA for eight years now!&nbsp;&nbsp; How embarrassing and I get to look at that for all the replies.&nbsp; :(</DIV><DIV>Ysabeau<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Thu 06/20, jystock@excite.com &lt; jystock@excite.com &gt; wrote:</DIV><BR>
<br />
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: orange 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-LEFT: 7px"><B>From: </B>jystock@excite.com [mailto: jystock@excite.com]<BR><B>To: </B>scribes@castle.org<BR><B>Date: </B>Thu 06/20<BR><B>Subject: </B>[scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??<BR><BR>
<br />
<TABLE bgColor=white border=0 cellPadding=10 cellSpacing=0 width="100%">
<br />
<TBODY>
<br />
<TR height=200>
<br />
<TD width="100%"><FONT color=black size=2>
<br />
<DIV>Hi I sent a message a few days ago and I noticed my message never made it to the list.&nbsp; But, for some reason it did and I just missed it, forgive me for being repetitious.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I've been painting illuminations for a while and have attended past KWHS.&nbsp; I've heard of famous people such as Duc de Berry, but that is the only one I can seem to remember. I'm not even sure if he's form France or Italy??&nbsp; There' also a Mary of somebody/somwhwere, but I can't remember her name.&nbsp; I seem to write these names&nbsp;on loose pieces of paper at events or think I'll remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.&nbsp; Never so!! I always forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>l love to study different styles and would like to read up on some of the more prominent scr!<BR>ibes and such.&nbsp; Can anyone throw out&nbsp;a few names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names would help too.&nbsp; It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and from different regions and times.&nbsp; Sort of a comprehensive list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators.&nbsp; Unless a list like this already exists??????</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Thanks so much!</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Ysabeau<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<br />
<P>
<br />
<HR>
<br />
<B>Join Excite! - <A href="http://www.excite.com/?PG=Email&amp;SEC=Signature" target=_top>http://www.excite.com</A></B><BR>The most personalized portal on the Web!<BR>
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:58:24 EDT
From: RenScribe@aol.com
Subject: [scribes]: Re: famous medival scribes/illuminators??

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My personal favorite  :-)

Attavante Attavanti  - A 15th century Florentine illuminator. A large number 
of the pieces in _Bibliotheca Corviniana_ are attributed to him directly or 
to his workshop.

When I think Italian Renaissance illumination, I think Attavante ... in any 
one of several closely related styles he did.

If you are unfamiliar with his work, there is a piece online at 
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/attavant/missal.html
Click on the thumbnail for a better look.

Yvianne
AEthelmearc

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>My personal favorite&nbsp; :-)<BR>
<BR>
Attavante Attavanti&nbsp; - A 15th century Florentine illuminator. A large number of the pieces in _Bibliotheca Corviniana_ are attributed to him directly or to his workshop.<BR>
<BR>
When I think Italian Renaissance illumination, I think Attavante ... in any one of several closely related styles he did.<BR>
<BR>
If you are unfamiliar with his work, there is a piece online at <BR>
http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/attavant/missal.html<BR>
Click on the thumbnail for a better look.<BR>
<BR>
Yvianne<BR>
AEthelmearc</FONT></HTML>

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:08:22 EDT
From: KMcWhyte@aol.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....

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In a message dated 6/20/02 11:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sburnell@raex.com writes:


> > ACK!!!
> >
> > Kayleigh, your best chance of getting the ink stain out is with a solvent.
> > Go buy a can of the cheapest hair spray you can find.
> > "AquaNet" is the one that comes to mind.  (Don't laugh!)
> 
> Kayleigh,
> 
>      I concur with Peter on that. The cheapest, cheesiest hair spray you can
> find is best. I used White Rain when I spilled a bottle of permanent India
> ink here on the carpet of my apartment, and frantically seeing my security
> deposit disappearing, my chemistry major next door neighbour recommended
> cheap, cheesy hair spray. Got up every drop of the ink without so much as
> leaving a stain.
> 
> Try that and see if it doesn't work for you! Best of luck!
> 
> ~Saradwen, been there, done that
>   Midrealm
> 
> 

I'm hairspraying it in the morning.... with all the running around I did 
tonight, plus the wonderful task of having to do 4 days worth of receipts 
into the database because our server at work crashed last week while I was 
out just adds to the irritation. I tried a different solvent, and not much of 
the stuff came out. Meanwhile, the odious task of cleaning up all the 
supplies that got inked is finally complete. And a new carrying case has been 
bought (Plaid, painter's case).

I've also heard hairspray works on lipstick stains (the things you learn from 
reading off of news stands...) . Should have figured it would take out ink, 
too... Hopefully it'll work.

Thanks all. *hugs*

- --Kayleigh

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Book Antiqua" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/20/02 11:34:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sburnell@raex.com writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt; ACK!!!
<BR>&gt;
<BR>&gt; Kayleigh, your best chance of getting the ink stain out is with a solvent.
<BR>&gt; Go buy a can of the cheapest hair spray you can find.
<BR>&gt; "AquaNet" is the one that comes to mind. &nbsp;(Don't laugh!)
<BR>
<BR>Kayleigh,
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I concur with Peter on that. The cheapest, cheesiest hair spray you can
<BR>find is best. I used White Rain when I spilled a bottle of permanent India
<BR>ink here on the carpet of my apartment, and frantically seeing my security
<BR>deposit disappearing, my chemistry major next door neighbour recommended
<BR>cheap, cheesy hair spray. Got up every drop of the ink without so much as
<BR>leaving a stain.
<BR>
<BR>Try that and see if it doesn't work for you! Best of luck!
<BR>
<BR>~Saradwen, been there, done that
<BR> &nbsp;Midrealm
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Book Antiqua" LANG="0">
<BR>I'm hairspraying it in the morning.... with all the running around I did tonight, plus the wonderful task of having to do 4 days worth of receipts into the database because our server at work crashed last week while I was out just adds to the irritation. I tried a different solvent, and not much of the stuff came out. Meanwhile, the odious task of cleaning up all the supplies that got inked is finally complete. And a new carrying case has been bought (Plaid, painter's case).
<BR>
<BR>I've also heard hairspray works on lipstick stains (the things you learn from reading off of news stands...) . Should have figured it would take out ink, too... Hopefully it'll work.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks all. *hugs*
<BR>
<BR>--Kayleigh</FONT></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:19:10 -0800
From: Heather Dorsett <hdorsett@alaska.net>
Subject: [scribes]: Ink from irises?

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
I seem to remember a thread on this list, about a year or so ago, about
making ink out of irises...either the flowers or after they've gone to
seed, I can't remember which.&nbsp; Does anyone here either remember or
know about such a thing?
<p>Helena Ochastka
<br>Barony of Winter's Gate, West
<br>(Fairbanks, Alaska)</html>

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:16:38 +0800
From: Jean-Paul Blaquiere <japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks

> On Jun 20, Helen Schultz illuminated :

> horizontal surface, then gravity is going to zap you every time.  You need to
> have at least a 30 degree angle of slant... I've even used a 45 degree with
> better success... 
> 
I shall have to try that then.  Tonight even :)

> Yes, there is a bit of grinding in the process. <sigh>  If, however, you have a
> bit excess ink made too thin, and are not in a big hurry, you can let it sit for
> about half an hour or so to evaporate off some of the water.  Just never let
> your grinding stone sit overnight with dried ink on it, you may deeply regret it
> later <wry grin>.
> 
*chuckle* I learnt to use the stone and inks while at school in Japan.  We
learnt well how to treat brushes, stones and ink and had demonstrated to us
why you don't leave ink to dry on the stones.

Random question, do many people on this list practice Japanese/Chinese
calligraphy?  and in Japanese/Chinese too, not the weird kanji looking
english that I have seen...


./jp
- -- 
Jean-Paul Blaquiere             ||   Avatar of Computational 
   japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au   ||   Thaumaturgy
   http://japester.ucc.asn.au   ||   verum ipsum factum
     Questions are dangerous, for they have answers
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:40:52 -0400
From: "Peter B. Steiner" <troubadr@buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks

Jean-Paul Blaquiere wrote:
> ahhhh more grinding I see.  :(  patience and sore fingers here I come.

Jean-Paul,

More grinding, yes....but if your fingers become sore you are quite likely
trying to force the process.  A light touch and a great deal of patience
will produce the best, most finely ground ink.  (When bubbles appear while
an artist is grinding, the Chinese say that the ink is "angry".  :-)  What this
means, in Western terms, is that the ink has been ground with too much pressure.)

The two deleterious effects of hasty grinding are: 1) large particle size, and
2) overheated binder.  I'm not sure why the latter damages the final product...but
apparently it does.  (The usual binder in traditional Asian ink is fish glue.)

You'll find that most Asian ink works better for Western calligraphy if you add
a drop or two of gum arabic solution during the grinding process.

Peace,
Peter

Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern
Lapidary and Scribal Arts
Barony of The Rhyderrich Hael
Aethelmearc  (Buffalo, New York, USA)
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 05:38:12 -0400
From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" <goofy1@suscom.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....

Yes, my jeans are apparently permanently stained from the incident the other
day.  In fact, several showers later, I still have just the faintest black
line around the cuticle on my right middle finger.

Laurensa
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com>
To: <scribes@castle.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea....


>
> Kayleigh, if the ink was permanent ink, you'll probably never get the
> stains out.  I spilled some Speedball permanent ink on a pair of jeans
once
> - despite repeated washings over the next 4 or 5 years I owned them, there
> were still grey spots on those jeans when I finally threw them out.
>
> Tetchubah
>
> Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war.
>
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:17:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lyle H. Gray" <gray@cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks

On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Jean-Paul Blaquiere wrote:

> > This same instructor's grinding technique was this... start with about 10 drops
> > of distilled water and grind, grind, grind... after a while, drag the stick
> > across the ground puddle and if it parts like the "Red Sea," and you don't need
> >
> ahhhh more grinding I see.  :(  patience and sore fingers here I come.

Remember not to press down too hard with the stick when you're
grinding.  That causes two problems:  hand cramps ;-), and ink
that is too grainy.


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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:27:29 -0500
From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@uiuc.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: Final price

Apologies to those who get this multiple times.

The coronet of infamy has been sold.

The Final price was $147.50.

Remember, SCA artisans are artisans.  They do good work, it's worth a lot 
on the open market.

Thank the person who made your scroll, sewed your clothes, cast your site 
token, threw your mug, or concocted your lunch, dinner, drink, etc.; it's 
nice to hear "thank you", and "nice work" even if it's a merchant who's 
making a (usually small) buck off of the stuff.  It's especially nice to 
thank those who do these things for you with only the thought of helping or 
producing something beautiful, useful, or tasty for someone else.

Smiles,
Despina


- ----------
If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:56:09 -0400
From: "Sally Burnell" <sburnell@raex.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: Final price

> Apologies to those who get this multiple times.
>
> The coronet of infamy has been sold.
>
> The Final price was $147.50.

Wow. Personally, I think it was worth more than that, but still, whoever got
it has a lovely piece of workmanship in their hands. Even if it had a
rather..........odd odyssey through its lifetime.

> Remember, SCA artisans are artisans.  They do good work, it's worth a lot
> on the open market.

Of that, I will most heartily concur! I've been doing SCA for nearly 25
years now, and I am amazed at the evolution of our craftsmanship. I look
back at stuff like our early scrolls, our attempts at armour, costuming and
other stuff we used back then (and I've gone back and looked at the old
photos of us back then.....) and it simply amazes me that we've come as far
as we have in the quarter century that I've been involved in this.

I look at all of your stuff when I come to events, your armour, your
clothing, your acoutrements, the scrolls given at courts, and of course, all
of the entries in A&S Faires, and at times, I am simply left speechless at
the awesome talents and abilities I see before me. If we sold this stuff on
the open market, I cannot even begin to fathom the value of what we create.

> Thank the person who made your scroll, sewed your clothes, cast your site
> token, threw your mug, or concocted your lunch, dinner, drink, etc.; it's
> nice to hear "thank you", and "nice work" even if it's a merchant who's
> making a (usually small) buck off of the stuff.  It's especially nice to
> thank those who do these things for you with only the thought of helping
or
> producing something beautiful, useful, or tasty for someone else.

Yes, I second that! Remember, we do what we do as a labour of love. We would
not do it otherwise. Our scrolls could fetch hundreds, and in some cases,
thousands of dollars on the open market. As could many of the things we
craft. I sometimes think we take it for granted that we do what we do, and
we see what we see at events. It's almost as if it's come to be expected
that you will walk in the door to find a hall filled with banners, a nice
list field surrounded by piles of armour and fighter gear, heavenly scents
of luncheons and feasts emanating from the kitchens nearby, merchant stalls
filled with a dazzling array of merchandise to peruse, gentles walking
around in various periods of garbs bantering with one another about this or
that - and scribes lovingly labouring on finishing the scrolls for that
night's court off in a Scribe's Room somewhere off the main event hall or
down the corridor in a classroom or someplace else on the event site. We
expect this, and yet it would not happen if we didn't work so hard to create
all these things you see when you arrive at an event.

So next time you go to an event, thank an artisan for the work they do to
help create the atmosphere you see before you. You can bet your bottom
dollar that it will make someone's day.

Oh, and be sure to thank the event staff, too. They worked hard to make it
all happen as well. Don't forget them, either.

~Saradwen
  Midrealm

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:01:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You

- --- Dawn <dagian@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Umm... they would have been in the proceedings... had they been finished
> in time ;-)
> > Seriously - I'm working off an outline, not a detailed article. 
However,
> since there is so much interest, I'll try to MAKE it a detailed article
> after this weekend.  Give me a month or so, and I'll announce to the list
> that it's ready.  I'll be happy to send it to any who wish it.
> Madeleine
> 
> From: "Holly" <res0vxr9@verizon.net>
> > The Proceedings volume should have them, yes/no?
> > :-)---Holly---<--<-@
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On
> >> Behalf Of R & M
> >> Would it be at all possible to get acopy of the class notes of this and
> >> for that matter any other of the class notes.
> >> Being on the other side of the planet I'm afraid I can't get there.
> >> Thanking you in advance
> >> Marit the Wanderer
> >>

For anyone who has never gotten a copy of 'the Proceedings', it's like some
of those journal subscriptions with lots of essays and research papers on
heraldry and scribal arts.  Once the Proceedings are sold on site by the
local group (part of a fund raiser) then the master is set to Free Trumpet
Press, a heraldic publisher for the SCA documents, and copies are made
available for purchase, usually the same price as sold at the event. 
Free Trumpet Press is strickly an SCA service for the College of Arms. 

While it's too late this year to put articles in the Proceedings, anyone 
can do so next year.   The Proceedings is not necessarily a copy of all the
class handouts... anyone can put any articles of related heraldic or scribal
interest, whether you attend the event or not.  I hope when Madeleine gets
it written, you will send it in next year.  Most all Proceedings have a
selection of scribal articles(though not as many as I'd like to see :-) ) as
well as armory (devices) and name articles for heraldry.

I've seen a lot of you guys have great articles on your websites, or in your
kingdom handbooks; those would be wonderful candidates for publishing in the
Proceedings.  Generally, everything sent in is published, though the editor
may reserve rights to edit.   Hopefully some of you will consider sending an
article or two next year.  

By the way, Madeleine, I too, would love a copy of the finished article.  
Thanks,  Hillary Greenslade, Ansteorra
hillaryrg@yahoo.com 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:08:51 -0700
From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?

>>I seem to remember a thread on this list, about a year or so ago, about
making ink out of irises...either the flowers or after they've gone to
seed, I can't remember which.  Does anyone here either remember or know
about such a thing? <<

I was experimenting with making Iris green last year, Heather.  That might
be what you remember.  Iris green isn't an ink, although I suppose you
could use it for one.  It's supposed to be a paint color.   It's made from
grinding fresh deep purple/blue irises, straining the juice from them, and
then adding alum.  The alum turns the deep purple juice into a bright green
color.  Both the purple and the green are fairly light fast, but they are
very light colored if used fresh.  I'm going to try another batch this
weekend since my irises are blooming again, and just let the water
evaporate out of them to see if I can get something closer to dry pigment.

Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid

Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:17:46 -0700
From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators??

>>I've been painting illuminations for a while and have attended past KWHS.
I've heard of famous people such as Duc de Berry, but that is the only one
I can seem to remember. I'm not even sure if he's form France or Italy??
There' also a Mary of somebody/somwhwere, but I can't remember her name.  I
seem to write these names on loose pieces of paper at events or think I'll
remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.  Never so!! I always
forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! <<

You're probably thinking of the Master of the Mary of Burgundy Hours.
Jean, Duc de Berry, was a French patron of the arts and had several books
of hours done for him including the Tres Riche Heures, the Grande Heures,
the Petite Heures, and the Belle Heures.  IIRC, the Fouquet brothers were
the illuminators of all 4 manuscripts.  You can find more information on
the Petite Heures (and see it online) at the Bibliotheque Nationale de
France website (www.bnf.fr/enluminaires).

>>l love to study different styles and would like to read up on some of the
more prominent scr! ibes and such.  Can anyone throw out a few names and/or
time periods and what country they were from, or just names would help too.
It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and
from different regions and times.  Sort of a comprehensive list of who's
who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators.  Unless a list like
this already exists??????<<

Eowyn Amberdrake and I were compiling something like that a few years ago
but we never completed it.  I believe she said she saw something like that
published at one point, but don't remember exactly (Eowyn?).  There are a
lot of famous illuminators, and a lot who remain anonymous and simply
remain known as "The Master of So & So's Hours".  One of my favorites is
Simon Marmion, as well as the Fouquets and Attavanti (I've got a weakness
for Italian Ren).  You'd be surprised at how many of the illuminators were
actually known - as well as those who aren't known.

Tetchubah

Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:28:33 -0700
From: EowynA <res0tiam@verizon.net>
Subject: [scribes]: Famous Scribes

Hi!

Sorry!  Sent this to the original poster instead of to the list!
E

- ---------
on 6/20/02 8:22 PM, jystock@excite.com at jystock@excite.com wrote:

> It would be fun to see how many different names we can come up with and from
different regions and times.  Sort of a comprehensive list of who's who's of
historical medieval scribes and illuminators.  Unless a list like this
already exists??????


I don't think it does exist.  Several scribes and myself started to do a
series of articles on scribes, with short bios (a paragraph or so) with the
aim of publishing it as a Compleat Anachronist.  Only a couple people did
their articles, alas, and i'm afraid that i lost the one that had been
turned in to me. (Sorry Tetchubah!)

I agree that a survey of known scribes would be a cool project, and I for
one would love to see it published on a forum of more permanence and
accessibility than an e-mail list. Say, Compleat Anachronist!

It would be cool to make this a group project -- one person agree to collect
the information each researcher posts to the list, and sort it by culture
(Dark Ages Britain, Carolingian Empire, Renaissance Italy, etc.).  Each
researcher/author explicitly gives permission for their stuff to be
published. Then the list of authors is given as a separate listing in the
booklet -- the name of record on the CA would be the editor/compiler.

Can you tell I've thought about this before?  But I am too busy to be the
editor/compiler, and I've already got a couple CA's coming out, so I hadn't
proposed it before.  Someone else needs the glory (and to do the work).
Takers?

Eowyn Amberdrake, 
perennial shill for the publishing industry

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End of scribes digest V8 #2
***************************