From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #27 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, February 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 027 In this issue: [scribes]: Alternative gouache brand for metallics Re: Re: [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! Re: [scribes]: gouache again (Long) [scribes]: Good Kells Copies Re: [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! Re: [scribes]: watercolor v. gouache [scribes]: looking for Brause nibs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:18:06 -0500 (EST) From: stacey jill wahrman Subject: [scribes]: Alternative gouache brand for metallics Regarding the question on gouache brands, I would generally recommend W&N, but I have also been extremely pleased with Pebeo and would recommend it if you can find it. In the D.C. metro area it is available at Pearl Art Center. A few months ago when I was desperately searching for good quality gold gouache for fine work that would match up to the color of my gold leaf (more or less) I went through just about every brand in the store, and the Pebeo was miles superior. Since then I've tried all their metallic colors, with excellent results. The pigments are ground extremely finely and give solid coverage without half the metal floating away and just disappearing when it dries. In general I've been very happy with W&N, but I really don't care for the color or consistency of their metallics, so I would strongly suggest Pebeo as a good (and cheap) alternative if you want to stick to gouache as opposed to shell gold. Arianwen ferch Maelgwn Storvik/Ponte Alto, Atlantia wahrman@wam.umd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:12:33 EST From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! W&N, Turner and Holbein are all good brands of gouache and all of them give permanance ratings to their colors--if this info. is not listed in mail order catalogs, ask for it when you call the M.O. sources. You want to try and stay with the most permanent colors as these fade least from exposure to sunlight and other UV sources. Most of the colors we use for heraldry are pretty permanent, but double check on some of the reds, especially the purplish reds. Luighseach nic Lochlainn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:54:41 EST From: PTS21@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: gouache again (Long) Hi Folks-- First, I've been using Windsor & Newton Gouaches for years and swear by them, but if I have someone who wants to just "try scribal stuff out for for a bit" and they're not sure they're going to stay active in it, I usually have them buy cheap tube watercolors (Niji sells for about $6-$8 for a starter set of 10 or 12 reasonable colors). For a person's first or second scroll, before I ever send them to a store, I usually try to set them up with a small pallette of my gouaches on a lid for a plastic container--then using the container as a water cup for painting, and as a cover for the paints for transportation. I have a large supply of these plastic deli containers for use at classes I teach so I know everyone is working with the same colors as I am. For people who haven't worked with Windsor & Newton gouaches before, they have a range of permances, opacities and staining qualities. * Permanence--how long it lasts AA-extremely durable A-durable B-moderately durable C-Fugitive You generally want to buy AA or A, but the best purples for our purpose are B. Opacity--ability to cover another color O-completely opaque R-reasonably opaque but will not completely obliterate dark colors P-partly transparent T-transparent You need to keep this quality in mind when doing some over painting techniques such as white work, shading, and diaper patterns. A side note about whites--there are two I use--zinc, which is good for mixing and permanent, which is good for white work on top of other colors. There are a couple of other whites available now. too but I have no experience with them. Staining--a little different from opacity, but also refers to color bleed- through--it concerns soluable pigmants that may bleed through a superimposed color. N-non-staining M-moderately safe, may bleed through light colors St-stain to some degree SS-strongly staining Again. this is just information to keep in main for use in overpainting situations, and does not usually have too much effect in flat color work or even in mixing that much. (From*--All of this information is available from Windsor & Newton in a sheet that comes in their boxed sets--you can probably get one, along with a color chart from them--the address is Windsor & Newton, Whitefriars Avenue, Wealdstone, Harrow HA3 5RH, England or try Colart America, Inc., 11 Constitution Ave., PO Box 1396, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1396.) The colors I use most frequently are: the two whites, Cobalt and Ultramarine blues, Primary and Cadmium pale reds, Spectrum yellow, Permanent middle green, Marigold yellow (which is really more of a light orange), Parma violet, Yellow Ochre and Vandyke brown (light and dark browns) and Lamp black. This IS NOT a suggestion list for people to go out and purchase--some of these colors run $12-$15 a piece!! This is simply what *I* like, and I got along for years with just the primary colors, white and black. Windsor & Newton does sell a set of Primaries which work well for the beginning scribe and give you 6 colors to work with right away, a little cheaper then picking up each color seperately. It comes with Primary Red, Blue, and Yellow, Lamp Black, Zinc? White, and I believe Yellow Ochre, so you really can do just about anything you want, as long as you're willing to spend a lot of time mixing paints. (I have a lot of colors and spend a lot of time mixing anyway.) Now--I have a quick question--I have been told by several people, and I thought I also read it somewhere, that, besides more binder (gum), the other difference between gouache and water color is the size of the pigment particles. Gouache has a larger pigment particle which causes it to lie more on top of the paper and gives you a better opacity--true or false? I also thought oxgall was more of a wetting agent than a binder--extending the drying time of the paint so as to give you a smoother painted surface for large areas of flat color--no? My apologies if I've covered any info or asked any questions that have already been covered--if I have, could whoever has the answer, e-mail me privately? Cori Ghora, deputy Signet, AEthelmearc Clare Jackson. North Tonawanda, NY (Just north of Buffalo--whereit is currently 40 degrees and sunny) pts21@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:08:13 EST From: PTS21@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Good Kells Copies In a message dated 98-01-31 22:48:41 EST, audacity@teleport.com writes: << For anyone making a trip to Portland, OR any time in the future, i was in their Wilson Rare Book Room the other day and saw a copy of the Book of Kells... >> For folks on the other side of the country, Canisius (sp?) College in Buffalo, NY also has a copy--A number of years ago, they took the real one apart one last time for rebinding, did a phenomenal (sp?) reproduction job (full size and, I believe on vellum--could be mistaken about that) and made, I think, only one thousand copies. This is probably the best option for people who can't see the original. I believe there's also one in Fulton, Missouri at ?Westminster College?--The one where Churchill gave the "Iron Curtain" speech. I think it's in the Churchill Museum. Cori Ghora, deputy Signet AEthelmearc Clare Jackson, North Tonawanda, NY (just north of Buffalo) pts21@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:20:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jenn Subject: Re: [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! >In any case, I have a question - I have decided to upgrade my selection >and purchase some gouache, by mail order (I have been using very cheap >watercolors). What are some opinions of some of the brands available? So >far I have sources for W&N, Holbein and Turner. Has any one used them and >what did you think? Turner is having a big sale (pretty cheap and if the >colors are good quality I will probably go with them). > I just bought my first winsor and newtons, haven't had a chance to sue them...(er, use, hrmmm, Freudian slip? Perhaps...I was dissapointed with their oil colours), but I have used Pebeo...only got the primaries in Pebeo (I'm a primary type of person, I avoid buying anything else unless I'm using a *huge* amount of one colour), but the colour is consistent throughout the tube, flows wonderfully...it costed me $13 (plus sales tax) for red, yellow, blue, black, and white, definately cheaper than the winsor and newtons (I got primary yellow, primary blue, primary red, and permanent white yesterday, it costed me $22 on sale, usually at my art store they go for $6.90 each). Pebeo's are great, I haven't been able to find a place that sells the tubes singly, only in little packs with the primaries and another pack with two tubes (silver and gold metallic). Good luck. Oh, by the way, do buy something good quality, don't buy something just cause it's a lot cheaper than the good stuff...I lucked out with Pebeo (my art teacher says they're almost as good as Winsor and Newton), but it's almost always better in the long run to buy the best stuff... ************************************************************* * Jenn Reed * Today is the Tomorrow * * audacity@teleport.com * You Dreamed of Yesterday * ************************************************************* * Shire of Stromgard / Barony of Three Mountains - An Tir * * Vancouver, Washington / Portland, Oregon - USA * ************************************************************* * GoHS4PS2 TJt84in2 PDoSoSh B9/16Bk"2 cBk(Dbr)-w8 V7S * * M3plwD zTeiTecJas C6omp a16+(17) n6 b56 H175 g4A0295A * * mEa28@Z3? w6T v1 r7BI p1ZZZZz D55! h5(TAnPTg)(PR) SF9M * * SsNn k3mWT N0292O RzS*2p6 LusWA5 * ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:45:22 -0800 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: watercolor v. gouache It really doesn't matter whether you use watercolor or gouache. They will both work well, although getting the watercolors to go down evenly enough can be tricky. But it really is just a matter of using less water when working with watercolors. While I personally prefer gouache now, when I first started working on scrolls about 18 years ago I did them in watercolors for the same reason a lot of people are using them now - I couldn't find gouache at the time, and being a poor student the watercolors were more reasonably priced. I used tube watercolors then and I think they're preferable to the stuff that comes in the little plates, but I've seen people use those as well with good results if they know what they're doing (Eowyn, didn't Atanielle Unesse use those? I recall someone telling me she did and her stuff was gorgeous). I'd worry now about them maybe fading out on me, but I've seen some of the first scrolls I did and they seem to be holding up okay so I don't think that's a major concern. I think the key here is use what you can get that works for you. I know someone here used to use acrylics on all his scrolls and they worked fine for him (but since David was a professional artist, he was used to working with the acrylics). Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:45:31 EST From: DLDorsey@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: looking for Brause nibs Hello All, This is my first posting to a list and I will try to be brief. I am Deirdre O'Rourke, A&S officer of The Barony of Concordia of the Snows in the East Kingdom. I am a novice in the scribal arts, but I have been illuminating Baronial award scrolls and a few Kingdom scrolls this past year or so. I do not as yet do calligraphy ( my poor excuse is the left handed struggle) but one of my friends who has taken a non-SCA calligraphy class was recommended to use Brause nibs. She needs a catalog name or source to order them from. I would appreciate any info anyone can give. This list has been very interesting and informative. I just need to keep up with the explosion of mail! Thanks in advance> Deirdre Deb Dorsey Schenectady NY ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #27 ****************************